RTE: What Chinese cultural traditions would you like to see incorporated into the Chinese liturgical practice? For example, in Indonesia, Orthodox Christians take off their shoes before they enter the church. This is an important act of reverence for them. They also read the hours separately from matins and vespers, so that they have more individual services because frequent prayer is a common way of worship in their culture. Do you have practices like this?

IOANNIS: We don't have strong outward traditions like this now in Chinese worship, but it is very important to us to pray for the dead, to pray for our ancestors.

RTE: So perhaps you would have more frequent pannikhida memorial services? IOANNIS: Yes. In the Chinese culture there are special days for remembering your ancestors, for honoring those who have died. This has nothing to do with the Christian liturgical year, but we could serve pannikhidas on those days. The Catholics also respect this and have special prayers for the dead on those days. Weddings are also extremely important for us, and perhaps there are Chinese marriage customs that could be incorporated into an Orthodox service or the wedding meal afterwards.

There are also traditions in the Orthodox Church that may be a little difficult for Chinese people at first, such as venerating icons by kissing them, or taking Holy Communion from one spoon. In China, even in the same family, people would never use the same cup or spoon. It's a little impolite. Also, it would be very difficult for them to kiss the forehead of someone who has reposed at a funeral. To the Chinese mind, once the person departs, the dead body is rather ghostly.

It also might be hard for young Chinese girls to confess to priests. I noticed in the Catholic Church that it is often difficult for young girls to confess, but once a woman marries and begins to have a family it is much easier. For young boys, though, it is easy and natural to be close to the priest, but once they are grown or married and the master of a family it is more difficult. The father or grandfather sometimes doesn't want his children to see him confessing because he is afraid it will undermine his authority.

RTE: What Chinese cultural traditions would you like to see incorporated into the Chinese liturgical practice? For example, in Indonesia, Orthodox Christians take off their shoes before they enter the church. This is an important act of reverence for them. They also read the hours separately from matins and vespers, so that they have more individual services because frequent prayer is a common way of worship in their culture. Do you have practices like this?

IOANNIS: We don't have strong outward traditions like this now in Chinese worship, but it is very important to us to pray for the dead, to pray for our ancestors.

RTE: So perhaps you would have more frequent pannikhida memorial services?

IOANNIS: Yes. In the Chinese culture there are special days for remembering your ancestors, for honoring those who have died. This has nothing to do with the Christian liturgical year, but we could serve pannikhidas on those days. The Catholics also respect this and have special prayers for the dead on those days. Weddings are also extremely important for us, and perhaps there are Chinese marriage customs that could be incorporated into an Orthodox service or the wedding meal afterwards.

There are also traditions in the Orthodox Church that may be a little difficult for Chinese people at first, such as venerating icons by kissing them, or taking Holy Communion from one spoon. In China, even in the same family, people would never use the same cup or spoon. It's a little impolite. Also, it would be very difficult for them to kiss the forehead of someone who has reposed at a funeral. To the Chinese mind, once the person departs, the dead body is rather ghostly.

It also might be hard for young Chinese girls to confess to priests. I noticed in the Catholic Church that it is often difficult for young girls to confess, but once a woman marries and begins to have a family it is much easier. For young boys, though, it is easy and natural to be close to the priest, but once they are grown or married and the master of a family it is more difficult. The father or grandfather sometimes doesn't want his children to see him confessing because he is afraid it will undermine his authority.

RTE: That's very human. Are there attitudes that already exist in the Chinese culture that would aid people in becoming traditionally Christian?

IOANNIS: I have to say that most young people today have lost their Chinese values, but also, in my opinion, the level of culture is not so important. For example, some theologians say that it was inevitable that the Orthodox East and the Catholic West divided because they were culturally different, and that the Roman West was more rational. I don't agree with this. They may have been more rational, but I don't believe that this caused the schism. Likewise, we cannot say that the Chinese culture and tradition is spiritually "better" or "higher" than that of India or the Philippines.

Before the tenth century, the Slavs, in the eyes of the Romans and Byzantines, were barbarians. The Romans eventually lost Orthodoxy, but the "barbarian" Slavs received it, and they not only received it, but they developed the tradition. Also, on the mainland of central China, there are traditional ancient cities that are becoming increasingly modern. Christian missionary work is not so successful there, but in some more remote places, the countryside near Vietnam, in the south of China — areas we've always called "barbarian" — there are many more people becoming Christian. So, can I say that their culture is barbaric? We see this everywhere: in Africa, among the aborigines in Australia, among the natives in Alaska. Human nature is the same. We cannot say that one culture is higher than another.

RTE: Yes, I agree, but I'm thinking more about the psychology, the general character traits of Chinese people. For example, in America we are often rather rational, which is good for understanding church history and theological problems, but in coming to Orthodoxy we may be more hesitant about things like wonder-working icons and miracles that are commonly accepted in Russia and Greece. Although you cannot generalize about any country, there are sometimes patterns of thought that help or hinder.

IOANNIS: I see. One thing that makes it easy for Chinese people to come close to Orthodoxy is that Orthodoxy is not quite like western Christianity, which is logical, scholastic, and reasoned. For the Chinese mind, it is easier to accept something practical.

I'm very surprised that so many Chinese people have converted to Protestantism and have lost their Chinese mind. They believe that salvation is only from faith, and works have nothing to do with it, but this is totally opposed to Chinese tradition. I am sorry to say that they are no longer pure Chinese. For a truly Chinese person, it is impossible to say that salvation comes only from faith while works mean nothing, that guidance is only from the Bible and not from tradition. This is completely against the Chinese way of thinking.

In Chinese philosophical writings before Christ, there are many texts that say that faith alone is not enough. In the teachings of Confucius and other great Chinese teachers, there is nothing that says if you simply worship and believe in a supreme being, you will be saved. They say that you have to walk on the right path, to keep to this way, to seek God; this path includes your duty to society, to your family, to your work. Traditional Chinese religion is mystical, but it is also very practical. Pure meditation is not a Chinese tradition. It is from India.

RTE: We often associate Chinese Buddhism with images of meditating monks.

IOANNIS: Yes, but this is not natural to us as a people. Chinese philosophy has elements that are very close to the teaching of the Holy Fathers. It says that agape and eros, the pure love of God and material love, are something quite different. In Chinese philosophy, the highest aim is to keep your heart completely calm, but this doesn't mean that a man becomes like a piece of wood, that he sits and meditates all day. This calmness is interior; he can love and help everyone but without material eros. This is something very close to Orthodoxy.

In the Roman Catholic spiritual practices that I learned, there wasn't a clear division between eros and agape. Many times in western meditation, the goal is to use the imagination to bring something alive, like watching a film inside oneself.

RTE: Like in the Ignatian exercises?

IOANNIS: Yes, and this is nearer eros than agape. My point is that in the Chinese tradition there are many things that are already Orthodox in form, and it is natural and easy for people to become Orthodox. The difficulty is that almost no Chinese people keep the traditions from before the Cultural Revolution, and western influence has destroyed most of what was left. Every soul has spiritual hunger, of course, but people are trying to fill it with worldliness. In some ways, this materialism has run its course in America, but in China it is just beginning and it is in full force. For example, the "free love" from the sixties and seventies in the U.S. is now infecting us. It hasn't finished in the U.S., but as an outward movement it has, and now it is starting with us.